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Op/Ed | 5/13/2012 @ 5:01PM |31,992 views For De-Friending The U.S., Facebook's Eduardo Saverin Is An American Hero 137 comments, 1 called-out + Comment now + Comment now
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Indeed, Saverin’s U.S. “de-friend” is great for economic growth on its face, and then the political implications of his move will hopefully pay future taxation dividends that accrue to entrepreneurialism and advancement. Media members will vilify Saverin, but hysteria from that quarter is to be expected.
Saverin’s essential maneuver will at first glance hopefully get Americans thinking once again about our wrongheaded system of taxation. As it stands now, Americans, through taxes levied on income and capital gains, are explicitly forced to “prove” their income to the IRS.
Think about the above for a moment. A nation founded on skepticism about politicians and government now has as one of its most powerful institutions a revenue agency meant to badger its citizens about how much they owe a government utterly contemptuous of constitutional limits. To this insatiable beast, Saverin is apparently saying no. Good for him!
Saverin’s flight from the U.S. is yet another reminder of the superiority of a national consumption tax that in a perfect world would be implemented in concert with the abolition of the I.R.S. A limited federal government is a difficult concept to achieve so long as that same government can grant itself the legal right to tax a certain portion of our incomes. When individuals resist governmental hubris, we should exalt their actions.
Ideally Saverin’s situation will remind Americans that the feds work for us, and to ensure that they seek to serve our needs rather than bludgeon us for revenue that they can dole out to favored constituents, we’ll implement a consumption tax through which we can limit what we hand over to them to spend. And if the tax is regressive or hits low incomes at the same percentage as high ones, all the better. Everyone should know intimately the cost of government.
Saverin’s departure is also a reminder to politicians that while they can obnoxiously decree what percentage of our income we’ll hand them in taxes, what they vote for won’t necessarily reflect reality. Indeed, as evidenced by Saverin’s renunciation, tax rates and collection of monies on those rates are two different things. Assuming nosebleed rates of taxation were a driver of Saverin’s decision, politicians will hopefully see that if too greedy about collecting the money of others, they’ll eventually collect nothing.
Considering the capital gains that Saverin will shield from the federal government, this too is heroic. Indeed, we have a bloated, wasteful federal government today precisely because it collects way too much in the way of revenues. Also, deficits that supposedly keep liberals and conservatives up at night are easy to finance at low rates of interest precisely because investors know our Treasury has an endless supply of wealth creators to fleece for dollars.
That Saverin has chosen to avoid supporting the Leviathan is a heroic act that will hopefully make investors a little bit more gun-shy about investing in U.S. debt. And if the loss of Saverin’s millions means fewer government programs will achieve funding, U.S. taxpayers will make up for the Saverin shortfall in spades given the seeming inability of Congress to “sunset” any program. The seen here is what the Treasury will “lose” for Saverin going elsewhere; the unseen the exponentially greater gains that taxpayers will enjoy for Congress not having Saverin’s millions to spend in the first place.
Of course from a near-term economic and investment perspective, what Saverin is doing is stimulus personified. That’s the case because there’s quite simply no realistic way that he’ll be able to spend his looming windfall; one that will come in the form of dollars. And because Saverin won’t be able to spend all that comes his way after the IPO, it means he’ll save that which he doesn’t consume.
To put it simply, unconsumed savings don’t traditionally lie dormant under a mattress, rather the savings are lent to or invested in today’s and tomorrow’s entrepreneurs. In short, Saverin’s avoidance of the tax man means that his Facebook profits will reach future entrepreneurs as opposed to being wasted by the political class.
Oddly here, and this speaks to how silly the economic discussion has become, founder Mark Zuckerberg is being lionized for the presumed $1 billion in capital gains taxes he’ll pay the feds. Saverin’s avoidance plan means more capital for business growth while Zuckerberg’s non-avoidance ensures more feeding of the beast, yet Saverin’s the bad guy? Yes, very odd.
Though it’s small in the big picture, many of us who loath the mere notion of handing money over to the government always pay restaurant tips in cash; the idea there being that wait staff members are better able to hide cash income from the government. It’s a small thing, but ideally multiplied across government skeptics nationwide, it has some kind of impact.
In Saverin’s case, his decision to renounce his U.S. citizenship will have a definite impact, and for that, those of us who seek smaller government should view him as a hero. Saverin’s decision will starve the feds of revenue they would almost certainly waste, it will force a rethink of a tax code that penalizes income and investment success, and the unconsumed dollars kept from the hands of government will reach today’s and tomorrow’s businesses. Let’s raise a glass to Eduardo Saverin. He’s a true American hero.
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Comments Called-Out Expand All Comments Anyone who suggests that a consumption tax is the answer to our taxation woes obviously has lived in Britain and seen what an incredible rats nest of regulations and rules their VAT system has become.
Permalink Flag Reply The current US tax code is a mess of loopholes, special interest exemptions, and favors for lobbyists. Personally, I am amazed that Facebook aren’t doing their IPO in another country. After all, most of the users of Facebook aren’t American.
And why shouldn’t a boy who was brought here by his parents from another country pick up and leave when he old enough to make his own decisions? You are whining like an ugly troll, to whom no promises of marriage were ever made, about the fact that you are not being escorted to the altar by somebody who never really had an interest.
And this person has paid a few hundred million to get out of the US. So you as an American have done a pretty good job of fleecing him for your own benefit.
Look at the US Congress. The American people, who actually vote for them, give them an F triple minus (17%) for a job well done. The US is overrun by religious nutters, who insist they have the right to mess with everybody else’s life based on their fruitcake Beliefs.
Oh, and the disappearing freedoms? You think he needs the Patriot Act, the IRS, the CIA? I suppose it is safer to be living in the US when you have these global nutters running around, but I figure he is tech-savvy enough to be able to put electronic defenses in place.
The fleeing of the wealthy from high-tax jurisdictions that do very little for the huge levies they take was predicted in the mid-90's in the book, “The Sovereign Individual”, and this is part of a growing phenomenon.
Consider the services the wealthy get from the Government. They are sub-standard, and expensive, and if Mr. Saverin could buy them from a free-enterprise source, they would be better, faster, cheaper, and much more courteous.
The wealthy Americans who remain in the US are held here by sentiment and friendships, not by the wonderful job the US Government does on their behalf.
Permalink Flag Reply “The US is overrun by religious nutters, who insist they have the right to mess with everybody else’s life based on their fruitcake Beliefs.”
I agree, a word of advice though, don’t ever let a liberal hear you call them a religious nutter! They’re as bad as muslims about having their religion insulted.
Permalink Flag Reply Well said!
Permalink Flag Reply Oh please, what you know about liberals would fill a thimble.
Permalink Flag Reply Wow, so much stupidity where to start….
“After all, most of the users of Facebook aren’t American.”
Sure, less than 50% of facebook’s users are not american but the highest amount of facebooks users are american. Try again.
“And why shouldn’t a boy who was brought here by his parents from another country pick up and leave……..”
He has been an adult for over 12 years now. Also did he leave because he wants to avoid taxes or because he was forced to come to america?
“And this person has paid a few hundred million to get out of the US…..”
citation needed
“The fleeing of the wealthy from high-tax jurisdictions that do very little for the huge levies they take was predicted in the mid-90's in the book, “The Sovereign Individual”, and this is part of a growing phenomenon.
Consider the services the wealthy get from the Government. They are sub-standard, and expensive, and if Mr. Saverin could buy them from a free-enterprise source, they would be better, faster, cheaper, and much more courteous.
The wealthy Americans who remain in the US are held here by sentiment and friendships, not by the wonderful job the US Government does on their behalf.”
lololol. Out of top 100 wealthiest people in the world 98 out of 100 live in the US. Those 98 people got their business started in the US and continued to prosper in the US. I dont know what bum fuck shithole you come from but I doubt the wealth of your country is infinitesimal in comparision to the US.
If the US tax code scares away some many wealthy people why are 99% of the wealthiest people in the world in the US?
Permalink Flag Reply Out of top 100 wealthiest people in the world 98 out of 100 live in the US.
Where the hell did you get this? http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/
Permalink Flag Reply I don’t care if he is no longer a citizen or not, he should pay taxes on money received from participating in business in the U.S.
Permalink Flag Reply He already did.
Permalink Flag Reply I agree 100%! He made it here, he should pay it here. Weasel is, as weasel is.
Permalink Flag Reply The only weasels here are those who think that someone else’s money belongs to them.
Permalink Flag Reply Remember the Boston Tea Party? its Patriotic! Best thing America Needs is All the Billioares and Millionares to leave= maybe politicians will care for the money we give them better. All Tax is Theft.
Permalink Flag Reply unknown–
Amen. The true weasels are the one’s who think they should have a claim on someone else’s efforts merely by accident of living within some arbitrarily defined geographical border. Saverin has fully paid for everything he has acquired, otherwise he’d either be arrested for thievery, or lauded as an example of successful government stimulus.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/Jasaydog.html
Permalink Flag Reply Jun
Permalink Flag Reply http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvB4kdtHnXc&feature=g-all-u
Permalink Flag Reply Yes, let’s tear up the roads and sewer systems. The cavemen didn’t need taxes…why do we?
Permalink Flag Reply Eduard came to this country as a kid to keep from being kidnapped in Brazil.
Here is a guy that came to America for safety, got an American education, met an American entrepreneur, made billions off of a tax payer created American invention called the “Internet” and now he doesn’t want to pay taxes to the country that helped make him rich and keep him alive.
He is no hero, he needs to be kicked out of the US permanently. Let him live in Brazil or Singapore. What a jerk…
Permalink Flag Reply Hahaha~ too bad, he can still visit US as a Singapore citizen. Keep crying.
Permalink Flag Reply Actually, he is limited to (I think) thirty days/year.
Permalink Flag Reply 30 days at a time… He can hop to Canada or the Caribbean and come back.
Permalink Flag Reply The internet is not an american invention. It was created at CERN. Yet another ignorant american who thinks the USA is the source of everything.
Permalink Flag Reply What Are you talking about carygold. he has paid taxes. He has not made that big Windfall next. What he is doing sends a message. If we keep playing this class warfare BULL the Rich are going to do what they are wealthy enoulgh to do…. LEAVE… I don’t know about you carygold but I never ever got a job from a poor guy. Now I have people getting Jobs from me. And one day If thoes people are smart they will have some jobs to hand out.
I don’t blame him for protecting HIS money from the grubbers….
Permalink Flag Reply Saverin benefited from free society in America, not coercive society. And coercive society is what is chasing him away. I only hope that wherever he goes, he continues to engage the free elements of society and shun the coercive ones. He is simultaneously self-serving and heroic for refusing to fully submit to the bullying of extortionists and fools.
Even if he did somehow benefit from the wealth-destroying economically illiterate violent actions of government (such beneficiaries typically don’t flee their government benefactors), nowhere did he agree to them. You can’t force something upon someone then after the fact demand an arbitrary post-transaction price and still consider yourself an ethical individual. You can’t violently monopolize a service and then claim the monopolizer is the benefactor of anyone who uses that service. There is no obligation not voluntarily agreed to.
Permalink Flag Reply Jun
Now you have to take-up his slack. See … we still have Debt on those TWO unpaid Wars. Now YOU get to pay for Saverin’s share of the cost on the War Debt.
Permalink Flag Reply Yeah, uh…no. The vast majority of the work on the early development (like pre-1990) of the Internet was done in the United States, by DARPA. TCP/IP was created in the US. The National Science Foundation and DoD funded a great deal of the creation of the Internet.
There was certainly some important work done abroad in the development of protocols and some other standards, but most of that work ultimately went by the wayside. The bulk of the heavy lifting and innovation was done in the US by Americans.
In short, it was created by American organizations, with American tax dollars. Savarin is making an immense profit due to a taxpayer-funded resource.
Permalink Flag Reply /eyeroll The internet was not “created at CERN.” If you don’t know the difference between the internet and the WWW, you really have no business calling anyone ignorant.
Permalink Flag Reply It’s easy, isn’t it, to denigrate Americans. But when it comes right down to it, despite our flaws, we are the greatest nation.
Permalink Flag Reply Good job Ed, I salute you & I would rather you use your money in Singapore than on USA. Uncle Sam would have just used your money for BS anyway.
Permalink Flag Reply Jun,
Permalink Flag Reply Thanks, I’m already in Japan as an expat.
Permalink Flag Reply That was awesome.
Permalink Flag Reply Hero my A**!!
Permalink Flag Reply “We may not have the best tax system in the world but it’s certainly not the worst of the lot.”
Really? Name one.
“Maybe if your little weasel hero would work at it in America, where he obviously never held any allegiance in the first place, he could help change the tax system so that it can be a more level playing field.”
What possible reason would he have to do that?
“But no, he’d rather worm out, sorta like you by claiming him a “hero”. He is not interested in doing any good for ANY country he lives in,”
Hate to tell ya, but an individual does not work for the State.
Permalink Flag Reply Hello Buddy,
The US corporate tax rate is about the highest in the world. So yes it is that bad.
Its the principle here that is crucial. Why should one give their property to another to be wasted by government on any number of unworthy projects funded by government?
Reason it through and tell me why?
GM
Permalink Flag Reply The rate is high, but the actual taxes paid are low, thanks to deductions, loopholes, etc. That isn’t hard to understand, is it?
Permalink Flag Reply There are many american corporations that are not paying any taxes at all. General Electric, for example.
Permalink Flag Reply Because individuals pay tax on their dividends.
Corporation tax is merely work for accountants.
Permalink Flag Reply Citizenship has nothing to do with paying taxes. Immigrants pay taxes too. And that’s reasonable, because they also benefit from what these taxes are used for: roads, schools, the judicial system, the armed forces, etc.
Permalink Flag Reply Wrong.
The US, quite unreasonably, taxes it’s citizens on worldwide income, even if they live on Mars.
Permalink Flag Reply The first $80k earned abroad it not taxed….
Permalink Flag Reply Thanks for your previous clarification on length-of-stay.
The magic number this year is $92, 900 ad it’s only on “earned” income.
Permalink Flag Reply The IRS has recently been sending letters demanding back taxes to Candians born to US parents in the US, who moved to Canada a few months after birth. These are individuals who have lived in Canada as far back as they can remember, and because they have recently been earning over the $92K/year, the IRS is demanding they pay up. The US gov’t will not let these individuals renounce their US citizenship until the taxes are paid. Consequently these Candians cannot cross to the US, or else they will be arrested.
Tell me the US tax system is not messed up.
Permalink Flag Reply Its not it’s.
Permalink Flag Reply For your capitalist fascist treasonous globalist propaganda, Forbes is now an enemy of the American people.
Permalink Flag Reply Scum bag traitor, may the French revolution haunt his dreams. You wealthy are going to go to far and when enough people have starved they will come for you.
Permalink Flag Reply Dear John,
So let’s all give him a pat on the back for weaseling out of paying his fair share of U.S. taxes and give him swift kick in the ass as he leaves the country.
Permalink Flag Reply What if there was no more Facebook? What then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU1Yu3slPR4
Permalink Flag Reply Thank you for this. America has to embrace the individual, and those who work in government need to remember they work for that individual. Not the other way around.
Permalink Flag Reply As you can see, Mr Leverson, many disagree with you.
They prefer to be slaves.
Permalink Flag Reply Haha, true that unknown- Slaves on The Road to Serfdom.
Permalink Flag Reply Good for him. I look forward to the day that I retire and renounce my citizenship in this police state country.
Permalink Flag Reply Why don’t you do it NOW? Because AMERICA is why you’re MAKING MONEY.
Permalink Flag Reply Good Piece.
Permalink Flag Reply Nice tie-in amping up Bain-mania and Koch-funded libertarianism du jour. After creating the concept of “that giant sucking sound” Ross Perot did a scoot the loot to Bermuda and nobody cared. But less tax dollars means downsized democracy and fewer public services and el cheapo public security that makes it tough to walk around in public smoking a cigar without getting mugged or kidnapped. Even if the banalization of money turns the social utility into the global Bank of Facebook, it will need a strong non-virtual army to protect the franchise and good private ones don’t come cheap. Like John Lennon said at the Beatles first Command Performance, the rich can rattle their jewelry… but and the clapping from the cheap seats is getting louder. The real irony here is that after fleeing the Holocaust in Europe Saverin’s family apparently made a fortune in the garment industry in big-government Brazil, where the media still call Eduardo “a Brazilian.”
Permalink Flag Reply Isn’t it interesting that the name contains the verb “save” : Saverin ?
Permalink Flag Reply No.
Permalink Flag Reply I lived for 5 years in USA, I own a property there and paid a ridiculous amount of taxes and an accountant. Not a US citizen, too complicated and expensive. Now I live in Singapore, for more than a year, my taxes take 15 minutes online and everything works better than in US..food, weather, safety, education…not everything are taxes in life….open your minds….travel, read, talk with people before make assumptions!
Permalink Flag Reply There is nothing like the issue of taxation, and its payment, to rile up mindless jingoism in Americans. Turn off brain, open mouth. Why? The belligerence toward “tax evaders” rivals that heaped on pedophiles? How did this happen? Questions of value and morality? Level-headed discussion? Fuggedaboutit.
Americans, what happened to you??
Permalink Flag Reply I am afraid this is not limited to Americans.
The Left everywhere stirs up hatred and envy of the successful and anyone that can be seen as a source of income that they–those who are more equal than others–can distribute to those in favour and those they can control by providing a pittance.
Permalink Flag Reply While that is true, for Americans to do this is particularly troublesome. Was any other country spawned from the lively debate about the limits and morality of government and its relationship to its citizens, particularly in the area of property and taxation? And yet, here we are at the other extreme.
There is reason for shame here, absolutely. But not from Saverin.
Permalink Flag Reply Very good points, John.
I, too, am disappointed.
Permalink Flag Reply Forbes: “For De-Friending The U.S., Facebook’s Eduardo Saverin Is An American Hero”
You know, in the world I live in, an American Hero has an entirely different meaning.
For instance, it starts with actually being an American, instead of quitting the country to become a citizen somewhere else.
.
Permalink Flag Reply Some people will protest their plight, but these days no one appears to be listening. Others will just move on.
GM
Permalink Flag Reply If you want to enjoy the benefits of U.S. society (Singapore’s supposed better delivery of services notwithstanding), you must be part of the social contract all of us share and pay your particular fair share. All taxes are not theft–this is a Norquist-invented paradigm–and are necessary elements in maintaining the services which ensure a profitable base for corporations and small businesses alike. Chuck the loopholes and enforce the tax laws.
Permalink Flag Reply I’ll bet Mr Saverin has paid far in more in taxes long before this imbroglio and received far less from the gummint than you have.
I’d say *you’re* the one who’s not paying his fair share.
Permalink Flag Reply Rather dubious assumptions on your part, so I can only conclude that empiricism is not your cup of tea. Nothing unfair about each of us paying a fair share to support our society.
Permalink Flag Reply Sentence 1: It was a bet, not an assumption. Feel free to provide countervailing evidence.
Sentence 2: Tautology.
Permalink Flag Reply What is his fair share? Who decides this – you? And what if he already did pay his fair share?
Lots of symbolism, no substance.
Permalink Flag Reply In propositional logic, there is no distinction between a tautology and a logically valid formula.
Permalink Flag Reply John Tamny: are restaurant customers who leave without paying their tab also American heros?
What a douche bag.
Permalink Flag Reply Whose side is Forbes on?
Permalink Flag Reply No US VAT! A VAT punishes the poor unduly and unfairly by dinging them at a greater percentage than it ever would to the wealthy. Think about someone living paycheck to paycheck with children, a higher proportion of their income goes towards buying items covered by your ideal sales tax. Why do you want to punish poor people?
Permalink Flag Reply There is a really simple answer. Have three tiers of consumption tax.
1. Low -say 1-5% max on basics.
2. Say, 5-10% on discretionary items.
3. Higher (maybe 20% ?) on luxurie.
Then you have small subsidies on those of truly low income.
Benefits:
Permalink Flag Reply Saverin has been living in Singapore since 2009, which means he clearly likes living in Singapore more than the U.S. As a result he is renounced his U.S citizenship around September of last year. He dose not have access to the decisions that Facebook makes and didn’t known about a potential IPO around the time of him renouncing his citizenship. He just got lucky to renounced his citizenship in time, as a result saving him a nice tax bill.
Please don’t forget about The Boston Tea Party, and how America was founded on freedom of choice. Also people forget that taxes doesn’t create economic growth and economic growth is what America needs to make American people happy, not more taxes.
Permalink Flag Reply Yes, don’t forget the Boston Tea Party: a bunch of citizens destroying the property of of a private corporation who were getting special tax favors.
Permalink Flag Reply Exactly! Glad someone remembers history *accurately*.
Permalink Flag Reply Gratitude. Ever hear of it? This silver-spooned waif was allowed into the U.S. presumably on the grounds that in Brazil, his life was endangered by kidnappers. (That and Daddy’s money.)
Some time later, perhaps as he was displacing the son of a Kansas wheat farmer from his dream of going to Harvard, he rose his hand and said this….
“…I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same…”
He is a billionaire.
A person like him, young, unimaginably rich, famous in social media, could help change the perspectives of many and turn back the red tide. But no, he is no American and he never was.
Here, again we are forced to bear witness to the significance of the term ‘natural born citizen’.
I am sad to see people content to watch the value of two presidential campaigns walk out the door. “See, that’ll show ‘em.”
Saverin is an ingrate, Zuckerberg… well.. we’ll see.
Permalink Flag Reply REALLY?? Two articles in one day Forbes??? on the same thing?!? Expressing the same view?!?!?
A link to the previous article is cheaper … so please take your own advice and stop wasting people’s money on needless expenses.
Permalink Flag Reply Are you that fucking stupid? It really doesn’t take anything at all to work here, does it?
You believe he’s absconding because he doesn’t want to “prove” his income? Like, hiring an accountant to fill out his 1040 and schedules for all the massive deductions and loopholes he’ll take advantage of is some kind of insurmountable burden for him? Aside from the fact that America’s voluntary post-facto filing system is universally regarded as less intrusive than the at-source tax systems of most other advanced countries, it’s kind of hard to imagine that his motivation was actually the paperwork itself.
He’s becoming a tax exile. After taking full advantage of America’s educational system, secure and expansive economic environment, low corporate taxation, massive continent-wide infrastructure, and the availability of a highly educated non-unionized workforce, all of it heavily taxpayer subsidized, he’s going to flee the country that made him rich, just before his big payoff, and set himself up as a fake citizen of a compliant country where he won’t have to pay any taxes at all. He’s doing it to avoid paying taxes – not because the mechanism of paying them is for some reason uniquely difficult for him.
And note, finally, that this has jack shit to do with a shift to a consumption tax. He’s not doing this because he really wanted to pay consumption taxes but the IRS wouldn’t let him. He’s doing it to avoid paying taxes of any kind. He’s taking the money we made for him and running. There is no link at all between his being a defector and the VAT, or sales tax, or flat tax, or any other bullshit favor-the-rich pseudo-tax. He’s just a parasite on the move.
It’s easy to see why he fits in so well at Forbes, but, if logic still means anything, this proves nothing about your pet tax theories.
Permalink Flag Reply Are you that fucking stupid? It really doesn’t take anything at all to work here, does it?
You believe he’s absconding because he doesn’t want to “prove” his income? Like, hiring an accountant to fill out his 1040 and schedules for all the massive deductions and loopholes he’ll take advantage of is some kind of insurmountable burden for him? Aside from the fact that America’s voluntary post-facto filing system is universally regarded as less intrusive than the at-source tax systems of most other advanced countries, it’s kind of hard to imagine that his motivation was actually the paperwork itself.
He’s becoming a tax exile. After taking full advantage of America’s educational system, secure and expansive economic environment, low corporate taxation, massive continent-wide infrastructure, Internet backbone, and the availability of a highly educated non-unionized workforce, all of it heavily taxpayer subsidized, he’s going to flee the country that made him rich, just before his big payoff, and set himself up as a fake citizen of a compliant country where he won’t have to pay any taxes at all. He’s doing it to avoid paying taxes – not because the mechanism of paying them is for some reason uniquely difficult for him.
And note, finally, that this has jack shit to do with a shift to a consumption tax. He’s not doing this because he really wanted to pay consumption taxes but the IRS wouldn’t let him. He’s doing it to avoid paying taxes of any kind. He’s taking the money we made for him and running. There is no link at all between his being a defector and the VAT, or sales tax, or flat tax, or any other bullshit favor-the-rich pseudo-tax. He’s just a parasite on the move.
It’s easy to see why he fits in so well at Forbes, but, if logic still means anything, this proves nothing about your pet tax theories.
Permalink Flag Reply Are you that fucking stupid? It really doesn’t take anything at all to work here, does it?
You believe he’s absconding because he doesn’t want to “prove” his income? Like, hiring an accountant to fill out his 1040 and the schedules for all the massive deductions and loopholes he’ll take advantage of is some kind of insurmountable burden for him? Aside from the fact that America’s voluntary post-facto filing system is universally regarded as less intrusive than the at-source tax systems of most other advanced countries, it’s kind of hard to imagine that his motivation was actually the paperwork itself.
He’s becoming a tax exile. After taking full advantage of America’s educational system, secure and expansive economic environment, low corporate taxation, massive continent-wide infrastructure, Internet backbone, and the availability of a highly educated non-unionized workforce, all of it heavily taxpayer subsidized, he’s going to flee the country that made him rich, just before his big payoff, and set himself up as a fake citizen of a compliant country where he won’t have to pay any taxes at all. He’s doing it to avoid paying taxes – not because the mechanism of paying them is for some reason uniquely difficult for him.
And note, finally, that this has jack shit to do with a shift to a consumption tax. He’s not doing this because he really wanted to pay consumption taxes but the IRS wouldn’t let him. He’s doing it to avoid paying taxes of any kind. He’s taking the money we made for him and running. There is no link at all between his being a defector and the VAT, or sales tax, or flat tax, or any other bullshit favor-the-rich pseudo-tax. He’s just a parasite on the move.
It’s easy to see why he fits in so well at Forbes, but, if logic still means anything, this proves nothing about your pet tax theories.
Permalink Flag Reply If you think renouncing your citizenship makes you a hero, then renounce YOURS. Get the hell out of this country, you damned freeloader. America needs trash like Saverin like we need a hole in the head. I’d rather have people in the United States who love the United States.
If taxes are more important to you than country, you are NO PATRIOT and NO AMERICAN.
Permalink Flag Reply John, if this guy is your idea of an American hero and patriot, what does that make the rest of us?
Permalink Flag Reply Fools.
Permalink Flag Reply Hero: “a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities. ” What is the “ distinguished courage” evidenced in Saverin’s abandonment of his country, and how is this action “noble”?
What this action has really shown is that money trumps patriotism. That’s all — for both Tamny and Saverin, bank is more important than loyalty to one’s country. “Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.” How ridiculously old-fashioned.
Okay, we’ll all agree not to trust either of these men with important decisions about our futures as citizens of the United States of America. Each acknowledges that he doesn’t give a rip about anyone except themselves. As a human being, as a citizen, as a neighbor, Eduardo Saverin has just become a billionaire non-entity. No commitments, no loyalty, no country. A hollow man with a pile of money. He is to be pitied.
Permalink Flag Reply This article is one of the most insane articles I have ever read in my life — and it is filled with false information, misleading information and was written without any factual knowledge of why Saverin left the country.
1) This country was founded because Colonists wanted “Taxation WITH Representation” … keyword: Taxation.
2) Taxing “the People” is, in deed, Constitutional. I suggest the author read the Constitution where it says: Congress has a right to levy taxes.
3) War … who does this author think will pay for wars? If the USA is solely taxed on a “Consumption Tax” – how does he propose we divide up the “Consumption” of each person when it comes to paying for War, Military etc.
4) To suggest that those in poverty should pay the same tax rate as a multi-millionaire is absurd, naive and proves the author is working with a low IQ.
5) The author pretends that Saverin denounced his US Citizenship because he didn’t want to pay 13% in Capital Gains Tax … yet has no source to even suggest that is why Saverin left the USA.
6) The author has very low and limited math skills as he wrote: “Saverin’s U.S. “de-friend” is great for economic growth” which is mathematically absurd.
7) Anyone who wants to know what a country looks like, when their people do not pay taxes and/or pay too little tax, go live in Syria, Yemen or any other 3rd World Country.
See how quick the cops come, or fireman. See what it’s like to live in an uneducated society with no paved roads and no waste management and no regulations on water, food or anything else.
You “don’t-tax-me” dreamers need to wake up and smell the coffee … as I think the Tea you’ve been drinking has been toxic to your brains.
Permalink Flag Reply What Eduardo Saverin Owes America (Hint: Nearly Everything)
http://pandodaily.com/2012/05/12/what-eduardo-saverin-owes-america-hint-nearly-everything/
Permalink Flag Reply Reading the article and the comments, a couple things come to mind. First, many people apparently have no idea what the word “billionaire” means. Second, the concept that someone worth upwards of 3 billion dollars is somehow an unfortunate victim of rules and regulations should be laughable to any and everyone, but somehow is not. Third, that the answer to unfair treatment of billionaires is a consumption tax- that is, a tax on groceries, clothing, gasoline, etc.- that will disproportionately and more harshly affect the middle class, low income earners and the poverty stricken is even more bewildering than defending the selfish actions of a man whose entire fortune is derived from opportunities afforded him by this nation.
Permalink Flag Reply You are letting your inner dreamer run your brain. The US Government is the enemy of prosperity for the citizenry. They have bought off half of the electorate with money stolen from the other half.
This is wrong and Eduardo is making that point … in opposition to the posers, Buffet and Gates.
Permalink Flag Reply [. The US Government is the enemy of prosperity for the citizenry. ]
Then get the hell out. Bye.
Permalink Flag Reply Thank you for that point of view. I wasn’t sure what to think initially, but your point is the correct one. It fits with my ‘cash tipping’ and hatred of government waste.
Here’s to Eduardo!
Permalink Flag Reply The guy reaps all the benefits of the American free market, then when it’s time to give a little something back, he literally turns his back on America,
Yeah, he’s a real freakin’ hero. Care to list some of the other ways in which you hate America?
Permalink Flag Reply You have reaped all the benefits of the American free market too.
What have you given back?
Permalink Flag Reply “Assuming nosebleed rates of taxation were a driver of Saverin’s decision, politicians will hopefully see that if too greedy about collecting the money of others, they’ll eventually collect nothing.”
Did I miss a memo? Since when is 15% a “nosebleed” tax rate? FIFTEEN PERCENT, kids. That’s what Saverin would’ve paid.
Permalink Flag Reply but but… he wouldn’t have enough billions left over to round up to 5 if he paid all those taxes!
Permalink Flag Reply This is an opinion piece calling someone an “American Hero” for renouncing their U.S. citizenship. Does not compute -_-
Permalink Flag Reply Computes just fine.
Pay capital gains on a vast fortune, or don’t.
Easy.
Permalink Flag Reply Criticise Bush and you’re anti-American. Renounce your citizenship to avoid paying taxes and you’re a hero. The Right is stupid.
Permalink Flag Reply Because, as we all know, the only principle in life that matters is the tax rate.
Bon voyage. You’ll follow his example, yes?
Of course, since Singapore is authoritarian, that lovely tax rate might change without your input. But, hey, democratic traditions are meaningless. There will always be somewhere with lower rates to move to. They’ll let you take your money with you. Authoritarian states always do, right?
Permalink Flag Reply American hero? Shouldn’t that be Singaporean hero?
Conservatives are always accusing Leftists of hating America – but here’s a guy giving up his citizenship to avoid taxes and you guys are cheering for him? Why do *you* guys hate America?
What do you think pays for your big-ass army, you dopes? It’s called taxes. Have fun invading the world without cash.
http://youtu.be/8MD4d7belCg
Permalink Flag Reply We’re tired of FREELOADERS. You WOULD NOT be rich WITHOUT America, it’s laws, it’s taxes and it’s structures.
Support your country or GET OUT.
Permalink Flag Reply According to the author of this article: “When individuals resist governmental hubris, we should exalt their actions.” While I applaud the gist of what Tamny says, why don’t the monied classes try & change the system? None of us likes the abusive, parasitic nature of the IRS or our federal govt (or state or local, for that matter) but the simple fact is, if we don’t pay our taxes then the system falters. Tell us what the alternative is? Flat tax? Rich people would STILL refuse to pay because it seems to me we’ve bent over backwards, as a nation, from at least as far back as Reagan, to give business what it wants, but they always want more. To give those in the top tier of earnings what they want…but they always want more. They don’t want to pay taxes, period. Fine, then expect to see toll booths everywhere when all our public assets are finally sold off, bit by bit, to private interests.
I don’t see how abandoning America is going to help Saverin in the long-run. He’s a schmuck for making his money here, but paying his taxes elsewhere. He got the best that America has to offer & how does he repay? By abandonment. He’s part of that new breed of (rich) Americans who want what they want, when they want it, but don’t want to give back anything in return. So long, schmuck. Don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. A hero? Not even close. What has his contribution been?
Permalink Flag Reply John,
Permalink Flag Reply Convenient that you neglect to mention capital gains taxes in the US are at historic lows. The ease in which you take Saverin’s own greed and redirect it at legislators who would have those with unearned incomes pay a fair share to support a system that has been very profitable for them is also amusing in a pathetic way. Vilifying and starving labor while at the same time elevating and toasting the so called ‘job creators’ will inevitably lead to no host for the lecherous to feed on. As for raising a glass, there is no fit homage to those who refuse to contribute to the system that made their wealth. I’d raise a glass to Saverin, but I would have to spit in his glass first. He is a hero only to the likes of you and Phil Gramm.
Permalink Flag Reply ALL the more reason for EVERYONE in the U.S. to cancel all of their facebok accounts, just like I did years ago !!!
Permalink Flag Reply The LIAR in Chiefs version of spreading the wealth, just take the money and run, leaving the Taxpayers holding the bag for the Taxes !!!
Permalink Flag Reply Are you kidding me? Isn’t capital gains tax 16%? It’d be amazing if he were barred from coming to the US and his share of the IPO confiscated, he’s a traitor. When a single-parent making $80,000/year pays 39% of their income in taxes and a billionaire like him pays 16% and has the gall to publicly say that’s too much, there is something very wrong with the system and more with the selfish entitled bastard.
Permalink Flag Reply Love the fact that no one has yet mentioned the exit tax.
http://renunciationguide.com/Exit-Tax-on-Renunciants.html
Permalink Flag Reply This is quite simply the best article I have read in the past year. I’m sure the author will be vilified, and I’d be shocked if he’s praised. Everything he says is so logical, lucid, and actually makes economic sense, all things that debt-happy Americans hate. The money that is not handed over to the IRS, and subsequently handed over to government programs, will be new capital that is available to banks. Banks can then lend it out. With more capital available, interest rates go lower (at least in a real economy that isn’t run by the Fed). That’s why saving, and NOT spending, drives the economy.
We forget that the government works for us.
“When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” Thomas Jefferson
Permalink Flag Reply He’s taking his money to Singapore, idiot.
Permalink Flag Reply When you call someone an idiot, it reflects poorly on you, especially when you’re the idiot.
Singapore has no capital gains taxes. So, even if he sells, they don’t get any of the money. If he doesn’t sell, then the equity remains in Facebook, a US company. The only thing the US loses is the tax on his capital. You have no business calling anyone an idiot.
Saverin leaving is one less citizen that the government has to worry about.
Also, you quite obviously don’t understand the free market. If people start to take their money out of the US for tax purposes, then that’s a heck of an incentive for the American government to spend more wisely and lower taxes. That’s good for the American economy.
This is all in the context of the free market, that concept upon which our country was built, and that everyone in America, presumably including you, has long forgotten.
Permalink Flag Reply Thank you, Nostal, for being a voice of reason.
Not much of that about …
Permalink Flag Reply Yeah, reasonable, sure. The free market we were founded on exploited slavery and child labor. There have been many constraints placed on the free market over the years, and our economy has continued to prosper for some. The government can definitely spend more wisely, maybe by cutting the defense budget in favor of expanding education and infrastructure, a much more logical form of defense. We are taxed at a very comparatively low rate.
Make sure your nostalgia is not for something that never really existed. That doesn’t make Kalepost’s post any less idiotic by the way.
Permalink Flag Reply Democracy occasionally gives us crooked politicians who don’t necessarily have the best interest of voters in mind. Does that mean we should do away with it?
The free market is economic democracy: consumers decide the prices. Sure, it can be manipulated. It’s not perfect. But, to paraphrase Churchill: the free market is the worst economic system, except all the others.
It’s a bit short-sighted to compare our tax rates to the rest of the world right now, when the rest of the world (including the US) is going bankrupt.
Permalink Flag Reply Democracy occasionally gives us crooked politicians who don’t necessarily have the best interest of voters in mind. Does that mean we should do away with it?
The free market is economic democracy: consumers decide the prices. Sure, it can be manipulated. It’s not perfect. But, to paraphrase Churchill: the free market is the worst economic system, except all the others.
It’s a bit short-sighted to compare our tax rates to the rest of the world right now, when the rest of the world (including the US) is going bankrupt.
Also, nice job on picking up the meaning of my username.
Permalink Flag Reply This opinion article is an embarrassment by Mr. Tamny. It is the American system that made it possible for Mr. Saverin to make the millions that he will be rightfully taxed on. This American system is not under attack, contrary to belligerent rhetoric of greed infused zealots like Mr. Tamny. Do a little homework before writing your partisan drivel – marginal income taxes are historically low and business profits are up. It is so safe to say that the government is bloated and inefficient, but a consumption tax is no solution to shrink the government. We live in the greatest, wealthiest nation ever imagined and we are too greedy to look out for the least of our brethren.
A responsible conservative like Ronald Reagan, who is lionized by many of these greedy conservatives, would be unelectable by Republicans today because he was willing to raise taxes when it was fiscally prudent and had the compassion to grant amnesty to millions of hard working men and women who came here looking for a piece of the American Dream. Get a grip on reality and stop your insane, gilded age diatribes on how hard it is to be rich in this country. Stop worrying so much about making a buck and work toward a cultural shift of making a difference so that young people can have true American heroes who are defined by their work ethic and dedication to making this the greatest country for all.
Permalink Flag Reply So this guy makes millions from government spending that makes commerce and the internet possible, then dodges out on taxes to support the society that made him rich. And you applaud him for it! Traitors, both of you.
Permalink Flag Reply I’m sorry, but this is Forbes? Are you so short-staffed that you cannot supervise and gate-keep your juniors from tarnishing your brand? Rationalizing Saverin’s legal maneuver as part of an intellectual pursuit would be interesting. Glorifying this anti-American action is tantamount to promoting treason as a manifestation of sloth, greed, selfishness and narcissism as virtues. Get real. The taxes we have all been paying for decades, including young Johnny Tamny and his parents, paved the way for this kind of windfall. There is no rationalization for this slug not paying his fair share–especially when its a paltry 15% capital gains. If he was in Brazil, he’d be paying even more. If there is no financial recourse, banning this weasel from the US for life is at least a start. We don’t want him. He’s a fair-weather citizen. It was convenient for him to become a citizen while he was getting rich. Now it’s convenient for him to dodge the taxes. Johnny, go back to school, and this time, do your homework. And btw, take some ethics and philosophy.
Permalink Flag Reply John Tamny – While I agree that Saverin is a hero, you on the other hand, are not. Paying waiters in cash for the sole purpse of hoping for, and practically encouraging tax EVASION — that is dishonest, unethical and very unheroic. I am amazed that you even wrote that in your story. Your desire to prevent our government from wasting money is honorable, but your approach is criminal.
Permalink Flag Reply Perhaps you should join him, Mr. Tamny.
Permalink Flag Reply What the hell is this BS? Do the 1% really need an example of how to avoid paying taxes?! Why praise this guy and not the rest of America’s billionaires?? They’re all American heroes, right? They all like to avoid taxes. What patriots they are!
Money saved in Singapore is NOT money invested in American middle class! What kind of asinine logic resulted in that ludicrous notion? Even if he did invest remotely in American businesses, that’s the wrong approach. Business owners want to hire as few people as possible, pay them as little as possible, so they can pocket as much as possible. IF he invests in programs that help to equalize the income disparity, great more power to him… but that’s as sure to happen as Ron Paul becoming PotUS, unfortunately.
Mr. Tamny you really think Congress is going to miss this money? So much so that they reform the tax code? LOL You’re a tool with elitist envy.
Permalink Flag Reply Wow. What a ridiculous piece of writing.
Like it or not, successful civil societies run on money from citizens and industry. The notion that being greedy is admirable (and even plays an important role in the economy) is really pathetic. It’s not. Greed is greed.
Mr. Saverin is not a true American hero. In fact, he’s already decided that he’s not really American at all — for a fee, of course.
Permalink Flag Reply As I’m reading this, I can picture the Libertarian writer foaming at the mouth as he conjures up his prose, complete with poor grammar. Another “wonderful” writer you have there. Go Forbes!
Permalink Flag Reply Savrin Shrugged
Permalink Flag Reply What a lot of right-wing paranoid nonsense. Yes, how dare Governments tax millionaires and billionaires to pay for such trivial matters as health, education, roads, social welfare. How dare Governments interfere with the selfish pleasures of a young, healthy male such as this guy. How dare Governments try to use some of the selfish excesses of greedy individuals to provide basic necessities for the poorest members of the community. Go ahead and leave America you self-centered young oaf. This guy may have lots of money, but he has a lot to learn about life.
Permalink Flag Reply America is taxed far too little, not too much. America’s social welfare spending is far too little, not too much. Millionaires and billionaires receive far too many priveliges, not too little. American ideology is skewed far too much in favour of business, and far too little on the workers and the poor.
Permalink Flag Reply So, how much does an article like this cost? How much would I have to pay to have my tax evading actions called heroic?
Permalink Flag Reply This reeks of PR posturing by a guy who intends to make more money off of you in the future. But from a distant shore.
Permalink Flag Reply You are such an ignoramus.
“…politicians will hopefully see that if too greedy about collecting the money of others, they’ll eventually collect nothing.” <–for one, grammar mistake ("if too greedy")
What kind of dumb shit statement is this? If they are too greedy? Politicians collect money from taxes not to line their own purses, but use it to operate, to distribute it back to the populace in the form of merit goods (e.g. education, health care), to support industries through subsidies, to fiscally stimulate the economy during recessions, to enforce the law etc.
And under what world would it not be right for the government to "[collect] the money of others"? Where else do you think the government receives funding? And "they'll eventually collect nothing"? Do you honestly believe that having a progressive tax rate ranging from 10-35% will cause all Americans to flee? Or are you only saying the wealthy will leave? You do realize that 133 of the Global Fortune 500 companies are in the US right? Or are you actually predicting the government will collapse because of such a 'burdensome' tax? I'm shaking my head.
Also, governments have budget deficits because they spend more than they can "fleece for dollars". So why are you arguing that politicians sleep soundly at night because they know they have "an endless supply of wealth creators"? They don't have an endless supply of wealth creators. The limit is at the revenue from taxes they receive. And that tax revenue can only be increased in the short term if tax rates go up. The thing is, they can't because of political pressure. And having a budget deficit is burdensome in that governments have to borrow, and then pay interest later on. That is why politicians can't sleep soundly at night when they have to figure out budget deficits.
Oh, and "the unconsumed dollars kept from the hands of government will reach today’s and tomorrow’s businesses"? Perhaps, but if it does, then that means those unconsumed dollars kept from the hands of government also won't be going to that public school, or that public infrastructure that so needs funding. So in the long run, where do we lose more? From a few businesses that marginally invest a bit more, that ultimately lines their pockets in dividends and private income? Or public education that benefits society as a whole, and public infrastructure that paves the way for a brighter future for America's economy?
And that was just skimming through your article and picking out 3-4 lines. Already it shows that your entire article just rests on fallacious logic, wide generalizations, a porous bedrock of evidence (if you can call it that), incorrect assumptions. Why does Forbes even let you publish this?
Permalink Flag Reply What kind of bizarro-world do you live in where tax avoidance = American hero? Here are some other ‘heros’:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2011/03/27/15-tax-escape-artists.html#slide1
Following your logic, small business owners like me are the villans for not having a large team of tax advisors to find loop holes. I don’t disagree that the gov is wasteful in spending (pension system, Iraq war?!?) but that doesn’t make tax avoiders like GE, Google and Saverin heros…how about tax avoiding leaches?
Why don’t you write an article about how our tax structure should be rewritten to be more fair with less loop holes and why the GOP fights this tooth and nail because they are in the tax avoiders pockets?
Permalink Flag Reply Mr. Zimdars: You’re exactly right. Tax rates are high precisely because there are way too many reductions. I want to rid us of all of them.
Still, anytime someone’s able to avoid the tax man, we all benefit. A dollar kept in the private sector is a dollar invested in the private sector rather than government waste. Realize also that if we had a fair tax system free of deductions, Saverin would have had no reason to leave. Economically we’re better off for him having done so.
Here’s a link to one of my articles calling for an end to all deductions.
John
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2010/11/01/to-reduce-taxes-we-must-abolish-our-tax-breaks/
Called-out comment Permalink Flag Reply I don’t see what the big deal is, its not like he dodged any tax. He had to pay the 15% capital gains tax on his Facebook stocks before leaving.
Even if he didn’t sell any of his Facebook stocks, the IRS just assumes that he did and takes the 15% of current market value upon leaving the country. Also he has to pay up on the Expatriation Tax before leaving…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax
All he did was avoid taxes on his future earnings, he paid in full all taxes owed on his current and past earnings. I guess people will spin things no matter what the facts are.
Besides, I’m pretty sure he will invest his future earnings more wisely than having the US Gov just flush it down the toilet on things like Solyndra.
Permalink Flag Reply Wow! Great article! I too am for limited government and commend Saverin for his decision. We should all take note! They do indeed work for us. I am a small business who struggles month to month because the tax environment in this country is out of control…nothing left for me to do what I COULD do if they got their hands out of my pockets, and that is create jobs!
Permalink Flag Reply No kidding that the U.S. tax system is a mess. But Saverin earned the money while working here as a U.S. citizen, and he can pay taxes here. The fact that people come to the U.S. and treat it like a personal money making machine and then leave is gross. Countries need to be communities of people that work together for the greater good and don’t just ditch when it’s inconvenient for their personal gain. If Saverin doesn’t like the tax system, he can stay here and be an activist or politician and WORK TO FIX IT! – instead of just running away with his money like the spoiled brat that he is.
Permalink Flag Reply “Saverin’s departure is also a reminder to politicians that while they can obnoxiously decree what percentage of our income we’ll hand them in taxes,”
Uh–as opposed to what? Having YOU decide? Let me guess: “mm…. after careful consideration, I vote nothing!” Am I being hysterical? Nope: the article itself says “politicians will hopefully see that if too greedy about collecting the money of others, they’ll eventually collect nothing,” after a full DECADE of nothing but tax cuts for the rich (the Bush tax cuts).
The last four words were the author’s most honest, factually correct, and prescient: “they’ll eventually collect nothing.” Did you enjoy creating Facebook, using America’s taxpayer-funded intellectual property laws, patent laws, criminal justice and anti-corruption laws, infrastructure, educational system (via our educated workforce), and research and development (such as the very Internet on which Facebook functions, which began life as DARPAnet, from the taxpayer-funded government entity DARPA)? Then… paying it forward isn’t superior to taking our money and running?
I have no problem with someone choosing to live in a different country. I have no problem if that country charges less in taxes than we do. I have a HUGE problem with someone advising, as this author does, that we should loot a country for all its taxpayer-funded benefits which I just described, and its labor, all of which are contributed by all three classes, not just the rich, and then promising to pay “nothing” in taxes.
Economic illiteracy. Deficits come from low taxes AND high spending, not just the latter. And if you’re using so much of the benefits provided by that spending, while yelling about paying nothing, you’re just a hypocrite. This is a blueprint for a failed state.
Permalink Flag Reply The last line of your commentary can best be classified as bullshit.
Permalink Flag Reply I’m not taking his move personally. The guy has no loyalty to any nation. I can also see wanting to save a few bucks on taxes. However, I guess I’m one of those fools who would stay and fight rather than just take off. I’m an American and greatfull to have been born here and enjoy all she has to offer. If you ate rich and don’t like something maybe using some funds to effect a change is more in order?
Permalink Flag Reply 
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